賈慶國教授現任北京大學中外人文交流研究基地主任、教授。2024年3月11日，中國兩會結束後，賈教授接受了《中美聚焦》的採訪。

我上次採訪賈慶國教授是在疫情期間，當時我們和傑出的美國學者傅高義交流——他在採訪後不久就離世了。通過今天的對話，我了解到開放性溝通背後的力量和價值。正如賈教授所說，開放性溝通可以在信任缺失的時候建立信任。

—周建成

周建成：

賈慶國教授，非常感謝您接受本次採訪。每年這個時候，北京都是人大和政協這兩個重要政治會議的舞台，而您又是政協常務委員。現在，兩會已經結束。為什麼兩會如此重要，世界各地的人們為何應該關注今年的兩會？

賈慶國:

兩會之所以具有重大影響，部分原因在於中國是一個正在迅速崛起的大型經濟體。中國的一舉一動都會對世界產生影響。中國以外的很多人都感受到了這個國家的變化帶來的影響。今年的兩會討論了很多政策問題，提出了很多想法。若你能觀察兩會，你就可以更好地了解中國現在的動態。世界上很多人都關注兩會，這不僅僅是出於好奇，也因為這些會議與他們的利益息息相關。

周建成：

我們剛才提到，您不僅是著名學者，還是政協常委。今年的會議上，您提交了兩項提案，一是促進人文交流，二是吸引更多國際學生來華。這些似乎都很重要，但許多人可能在想：當面對經濟增長和創造就業等壓力的時候，這些事情還重要嗎？

賈慶國:

經濟增長和創造就業非常重要，這也可能是今年兩會最熱的話題。同時我認為，向世界解釋中國當前正在發生的事情，鼓勵更多外國學生來華學習也很重要。中國一直在快速發展，正處於大國向強國或者說超級大國轉變的過程。所以，這段時間很多人都關心中國未來會有何舉動，以及是否有相應的能力。他們很擔心。而且，現在也在討論“修昔底德陷阱”。在這個關鍵的歷史節點，中國需要向世界更好地解釋自己的變化，講好中國故事，平息此類擔憂和恐懼。

講好正在發生的中國故事也有利於中國經濟。應該讓世界各國了解中國當前的情況，這能減少它們的擔憂，鼓勵中國與美國及其他國家更好地互動。

讓更多外國學生來華學習對中國來說非常重要。我們需要更多的外國人了解中國。我們需要經驗豐富的中國通，向他們國家的人民解釋中國正在發生的事情。這些年輕人是世界未來的領導人。很多中國學生在海外學習，但我們需要更多的外國學生來到中國。他們需要相互了解，了解彼此的國家，將來才可以更好地處理我們的關係。長遠來看，這對經濟非常有利。我們要幫助更多的人相互理解，促進貿易和經濟關係，造福各國。

周建成：

我們剛才提到講述中國故事，為的是增進開放、溝通和理解。您認為有人能講好中國故事嗎？在當前的環境下，他們是否願意這麼做呢？

賈慶國:

很多人有能力，而且頭腦冷靜、理性、務實。他們能講好中國故事。中國故事非常複雜，涉及很多方面。我們需要的不僅僅是幾個人講述中國故事，我們還需要人文交流，鼓勵各行各業的人員互相交流，更全面地了解中國正在發生的事情。當然，在這個過程中，專家學者和退休官員可以發揮更大的作用。因此，在我的一項提案里，我提出需要鼓勵這些人的參與，而不是限制這些參與交流的人。

周建成：

中美領導人加州會晤已經過去四個月了，相當於一年的1/3。許多人在問：會晤以後，兩國關係是否發生了根本性的改變或者改善？賈教授，說到加州會晤以及舊金山願景，您認為現在怎麼做才能讓這一願景成為現實？

賈慶國:

加州會晤過後，發生了很多事情。兩國加快了重新接觸的進程。也就是說，兩國不同級別的官員參與了會晤。這兩個大國之間的關係不能由兩個人管理，不能僅僅是國家元首，它需要很多人共同管理。這是舊金山會議精神的內容之一。

除了重新接觸之外，我們還看到兩國對各種問題進行了認真討論。兩國成立了工作組，討論不同問題，尋找存在共同利益以及可以合作的領域。雙邊關係比以前更加穩定，正朝着正確的方向發展。然而，不信任感仍然很深，國內政治中仍然敵對情緒濃厚，尤其是美國。

最近，美國國會一直在審議禁止TikTok的法案，體現了兩國關係的不信任情緒及其政治化。未來，我認為兩國應繼續奉行重新接觸的政策，並努力在擁有共同利益的領域開展合作，包括繼續推動全球治理和應對各種全球挑戰。當然，這些行動面臨很多不確定性。不確定性的最主要來源之一是當前的美國總統選舉。如果特朗普當選，我認為兩國的發展很可能出現消極變化。

周建成：

賈慶國教授，上次採訪您是在好幾年前。希望不久的將來您能再給我一次採訪機會。非常感謝您今天分享的見解。

賈慶國:

謝謝。我同樣期待今後的採訪。

Professor Jia Qingguo is Director and Professor of the Institute for Global Cooperation and Understanding, Peking University. This interview with him is conducted on March 11, 2024 just after the closing of the Two Sessions in Beijing.

The last time I interviewed Professor Jia Qingguo was during the pandemic in conversation with the great American scholar Ezra Vogel, who died shortly after that interview. What I take away from today's conversation is the power and value of open communications, which can build trust at a time when trust, as Jia says, is sadly absent.

— James Chau

James Chau:

Professor Jia Qingguo, thanks very much for this interview today. Around this time every year, Beijing is center stage for two key political meetings: the National People's Congress and the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference, of which you are a standing committee member. Those meetings have now concluded. Why are they significant and why should people around the world care about this year's outcomes?

Jia Qingguo:

They have significant impact in part because of the fact that China is a huge economy that is rising rapidly. Whatever China does has an impact on the rest of the world. A lot of people outside China feel the impact of changes in China. During these two sessions, a lot of policy issues are discussed. A lot of ideas are floated. If you watch what's going on, you get a better sense of what's going on in China. So a lot of people in the world are paying attention to the two sessions, and it's not just out of curiosity. It's because the meetings are relevant to their respective interests.

James Chau:

As we said earlier, you're not just a renowned scholar but also a Standing Committee member of the CPPCC. At this year's session, you submitted two proposals — one to drive people-to-people contacts and the other to draw more international students to China. That may seem important, but many people may be thinking, how important are these when you also look at the landscape of pressures, such as economic growth and job creation?

Jia Qingguo:

Economic growth and job creation are very important, and probably the most heated topics of this year's sessions. At the same time, I think explaining to the world what's going on in China and encouraging more students from other countries to come study in China is also very important. China has been developing rapidly and has been in the process of a transition — a large country to a strong country, or to a superpower. So during this period of time a lot of people have been concerned about what China will do and if it has the capacity. They are worried. So you have this Thucydides trap argument. But at this juncture, China needs to explain to the world better about what's going on in the country and tell China's story to assuage such concerns and fears.

Telling a good story about what's going on in China is also good for China's economy. Let the rest of the world understand what's going on in China. That would lower the level of concerns and also encourage better interactions between the United States and China, or between China and the rest of the world.

Getting more students from other countries to study in China is also very important for this country. We need more people in other countries to understand China. We need experienced China hands to explain to their own people what's going on in China. These young people are the future leaders of the world. A lot of Chinese students are overseas, but we need more foreign students to come to China. They get to know each other and each other's countries, and then in the future, I think they can better manage our relationship. It's also very good for the economy in the long run. We'll have more people who understand each other and help trade and economic relations that will bring benefits to both countries.

James Chau:

We talk about telling the story of China to elevate openness, communication and understanding. Do you think there are people out there who are able to tell the story of China, and is there a willingness to tell that story in this current climate?

Jia Qingguo:

There are a lot of people who are capable and also level-minded, rational and pragmatic. And they can tell a good story about China. In China, the story is very complex. It involves a lot of aspects. We need not just a few people to tell this story about China. We also need people-to-people exchanges, to encourage people in different walks of life to talk to each other so that they can get a more comprehensive picture of what's going on in China while, of course in the process the experts, scholars and former officials can play a larger role. So in one of my proposals, I argue that we need to encourage these people instead of restricting those who engage in this kind of process.

James Chau:

Four months have passed since the leaders of the United States and China met in California. That's a third of the year, basically. And a lot of people are asking whether anything has fundamentally shifted or improved since that time. Professor Jia, when you think about California, and what the San Francisco vision promises, what must happen now to make that vision a reality?

Jia Qingguo:

Quite a few things have happened since then. The two countries have stepped up the reengagement process. In other words, officials of the two countries at different levels are meeting each other. These are two big countries whose relationship cannot be run by two people — not just the presidents. They need to be run by a lot of people. That's part of the spirit of the San Francisco meeting.

In addition to reengagement, we also see a process of serious discussions on various kinds of issues. The two countries have set up working groups to discuss different issues and to try and find areas where we share interests and can cooperate. The relationship has also become more stable than it used to be. It's moving in the right direction. However, the distrust is still deep, and domestic politics are still quite hostile, especially in the U.S..

Recently, the U.S. Congress has been deliberating a bill to ban TikTok, symbolizing the distrust and politicization of the relationship. In the days to come, I think the two countries should continue to pursue the policy of reengagement and try to cooperate on areas of shared interest, including greater efforts to help shape global governance and the global response to various kinds of challenges. But of course, there are a lot of uncertainties in the efforts to do so.One of the most significant sources of uncertainty is the current U.S. presidential election. If Trump gets elected, I think the current cause of development will probably change in a negative way, more likely than not.

James Chau:

Professor Jia Qingguo, it has been years since I've interviewed you, and I hope that you'll give me the opportunity to do so again in the near future. Thank you very much as always for your important insights.

Jia Qingguo:

Thank you. I'm looking forward to it.

(The foregoing was lightly edited for clarity.)